Hello, subscribers and D4 fans who have been receiving my Substack history research.
I am hoping to get a bit of feedback as we lead up to more and more advanced tools and techniques for big wall climbing.
As a researcher, it is easy to get drawn into the proverbial “rabbit holes” where days can be spent on details sidelining the story, for example, the life of the Chamois in the European Alps.
Just hoping if you have a moment to note if you like this research and if the level of detail is sometimes too much, and also if you have any suggestions to spice it up. (Lately, I’m stuck on the latest chapter on Konrad Kain’s climbs in Europe with perhaps too much detail, but some new interesting connections).
Thanks!
Edit: Thanks everyone! Super helpful comments. I will definitely try to get it all in book form, perhaps a print-on-demand. Most publishers would probably cut the number of photos—I think the story can only really be told visually, stuff is often too hard to explain. Pics tell 1000 words, so really a million-page book. ;)
Yo John I've been waiting a year or so maybe 10 to inquire and get some feedback from you Jim Erickson says that you guys are in touch. But this is me. My question do you remember about the elves Chasm Upper Falls at the base of the red wall. I found a nice OMG project that I have pitched to Erik weihenmayer who said Pitch it to Timmy O'Neill who is so solidly booked.... did you have the OMG at the base of the red wall. A vague memory being there with some other boaters who said above here the New Zealand guy went on up but no one else.
Not sure we met when I sat at your beer Table after you Neptune history.
Seems a few challenges in that canyon! I can dig up old notes, I did a few climbing trips during my five river guiding seasons, but no major red wall routes. Email is deuce4@bigwalls.net
Your articles are all super in-depth, and I'm not interested in every topic you write about, so I don't read every article.
BUT! When you do write on something I'm interested enough to read, I'm grateful that you delve so deeply into things. I'm definitely looking forward to when you get around to climbing history in the USA.
Hi John! thanks a lot for all that amazing work of research! i confess i wait for your emails with great expectative. so thank you! - from catalonia, spain. g
Thanks! I am missing info from Spain, I know a bit about the more modern walls there, but do not know much about the history before 1940. Can you tell me more? Please email deuce4@bigwalls.net if you have any leads!
Dear John, first of all thank you for the most fascinating and detailed research on climbing equipment in context with the time and regional climbing cultures. It is really outstanding. I still have not had the time to read all of your articles, but they will be a relevant source for my own involvement with the history of climbing equipment. It is your research into Konrad Kain that brought me to sending you this feed back. I am British but have been living in Vienna, Austria for most of my life. I have climbed a lot on the Rax where Kain was born and put up the renown „Wiener Neustädter“ climb. This was until 1918 the hardest route in the area and graded 3-4 UIAA grading. So called because of the plan of the government of the town „Wiener Neustadt“ to introduce a qualifying certificate for climbers! (Rax is in the County of Wiener Neustadt). I never did the climb - too chossy. I am a climber, a now retired industrial designer, having also been involved tinkering, designing and inventing climbing gear. If you are interested I would like to send you more detailed information. Please contact me skone@vienna.at
Great info, thanks! This is my current footnotes I wrote about Rax in my current draft of Trains and Kain, part 2, let me know if I can add any details:
Footnote: Regarding the fifteen routes on the Rax at the time, information on the old routes is patchy (current guide here) but Kain writes about a few: the Katzenkopf, Akademik, Quartette, and the Karl Berger route. Routes can be as long as 800m in this Northern Limestone Alp range. Karl Berger had first ascended some of the hardest technical rock climbing spires in the Tyrol and Dolomites; he is most famous as one of the first ascensionists of the technical rock climbing breakthrough Campanile Basso in 1899. In the appendix, there is a postcard of Karl Berger on a steep rock climb possibly in the Rax Alps. Berger, like the great climber Hans Dülfer, was killed in WWI.
A boom in guideless climbing was also happening in the Viennese Alps, prompted by the Naturfreunde (Nature Friends) movement, an environmental organisation started in 1895 in Vienna, with thousands of members, who sought to share their love of mountain recreation and to provide rescue services. Kain writes of his friend and Naturfreunde member Franz Hahn, who fell and died on a climb in the Rax: “Only those, who like poor Hahn, buried today, laying out his own hard-earned kreuzers for nature, and finding his joy in the mountains; only those can be called nature friends” (Kain was very cognizant of social/wealth divides). From 1890, the Gebirgsfreund, (Mountain Friend) was a monthly from the Austrian Mountain Club based in Vienna with Mizzi Langer advertisements and Gustav Jahn illustrations; in its first issue, the editorial encourages alpine excursion in more distant ranges like the Ennsthal high mountains (~150km east of Vienna), which were “touristically” connected to Vienna via the “pleasure train of the Austrian State”.
A quick sketchy reply. Thanx for your interest. Karl Berger came from Innsbruck. No evidence of his climbing on Rax!? The piton „revolution“ came from Munich. There was the famous discussion between the „Munich School“ (Hans Dülfer and his more freely used pitons, mainly in the Wilde Kaiser) and the Vienna School (strongly associated with Paul Preuss) refusing the use of pitons (at least for a long period of time). The main big wall playground of the Viennese climbers was the Gesäuse and the Dachstein. Mountains that could be reached by train end of the 19th century. The „training areas“ were Rax and possibly from the climbing standard, Peilstein, which could be reached by a long walk from Vienna. (usually at night). The great names who did most of their short - very free - climbs on Peilstein where - amongst others - Fritz Kasparek (Eiger) and Walter Philipp (Philipp-Flamm Civetta). In the early 1970s, about the time of the „red dot“ revolution in Frankenjura through Kurt Albert, where old pitons where changed through bolts, my companions and I decided to climb „clean“ not to replace the old pegs on Peilstein. That lasted for a few years then the bolt lobby became too powerful.
Just checked the „Touristenzeitung“ article. Hardly anything about Kain! Just a few mentions. Just double checked the info in article and old guide book. Kain was in fact „only" the first ascender of a very hard variation of the Wr. Neustädter climb. Sorry about the mistake. I don’t know if it is really interesting for you to translate the whole article. Definitely too much for me. Also my english is not really up to standards. The guy who is really into alpine climbing history would be Nico Mailänder. (in Germany). I would translate part of the article, if you could tell me what is your main interest. It should be then edited by you, if possible. Would gladly give you further info about the Vienna climbing specially between the wars. (political situation). cheers!
I also love the rabbit holes. Wherever your brain goes always seems to be interesting to me. Occasionally you refer to some historical event that you assume is already known, yet I don’t know it. In editing process for book production, I am happy to read manuscript carefully to catch these gaps. Also, the more photos the better. Please print them large! Being able to zoom to see detail has been invaluable, but of course printing doesn’t give that ability.
Thanks Amy! Yes, would love to hear more gaps, as I do try to make sure I explain basic concepts as much as possible. Maybe just a quick reply email to the posts with a couple questions would be ideal! (I often edit quite a bit after I post these, as I consider them all works in progress and readers often provide further juicy details).
I have found some things more interesting than others - the inter-war years in the Dolomites & Wilder Kaiser, previously unheralded women’s ascents - but that reflects areas I know a little or an interest in the wrinkles of history. All sorts of little oddities … do you know anything about Anderl Heckmair’s service on the Eastern Front in WW2? (I don’t.) I’m less interested in the mechanics of progression, save in so far as they reflect the spirit of the times … but given your chosen title for this series I can’t complain. & to echo others - what you’re putting together goes far beyond a blog & definitely deserves to find its way into the “old media”. I’ll buy a copy.
Like everywhere, everything gets renamed. The local names much more interesting once you find out origins and delve into more rabbit holes. Cheers from Tassie.
Love the details, John. In many fields, such nuances and specifics are where the substance is found. Keep up the great work. Also, I second Katie Ives's comment. Your work on women climbers has been phenomenal!
Thanks, Eric! Right now trying to track down any info a “Miss Benedict”. Info below, sent to other researchers.
I am doing some research on early climbing tools and techniques, and was wondering if you have ever come across a woman climber with a last name of Benedikt, who might have lived in Altaussee in Austria. She was also a painter, perhaps.
Notes from Conrad Kain writings:
1905 Kain meets Miss B in Altaussee--solos a new route on Trisselwand and promises to return to climb a line Miss B. has picked out.
1906 early season climbs in the Rax, his home area, with Miss B.
1907, big climbing trip with Miss B and other in Ennstal Alps (Dachstein, Planspitze)
In letters, October, 1907, mentions climbs with the sisters Benedikt in the Dachsteingegebirge. They climbed among others the Petern route on the Planspitze, a long steep rock climb.
In 1908 Kain and Miss B did a new route on the Trisselwand. This route was not reported in the journals, as far as I can tell (but maybe local news from Vienna), but it predates some other routes up the wall that became very famous. The local "guides were aware of the Lady's project, they came to me and said we were both fools; it was impossible to surmount such a rock wall." By this time there was a well known route, considered the first ascent, in 1905 by Reinl. Kain mentions no one could believe they had done the new route, and that a reporter was arriving to talk to Miss B.
It sounds like yet another case of a long forgotten route, but might have actually been a pretty big deal at the time. Tomasson's ascent on Marmolata would have been widely known at the time, and this coincides at a time when these big unclimbed faces of the Northern Limestone Alps were really being looked at.
Just wondering if anything is known of this early climber.
Wow, John! Your knowledge here so far is the equivalent of climbing 5.14c, I would say, while my information is on the level of 5.3 or so. But I'll gladly scout for you, as to potential sources. For example, my Bavarian climbing friend Klaus may not himself be a helpful source but may know someone who could be. Let's continue by email!
I love all your research, particularly the stories about lesser-known women climbers. I hope all this goes into a book or some other permanent form so future researchers can access it--Katie.
Really appreciate, Katie. I will definitely try to put all into a single PDF with Abobe Indesign at some point. Will also try to convert to pages at Bigwalls.net, so searchable with google too.
Yo John I've been waiting a year or so maybe 10 to inquire and get some feedback from you Jim Erickson says that you guys are in touch. But this is me. My question do you remember about the elves Chasm Upper Falls at the base of the red wall. I found a nice OMG project that I have pitched to Erik weihenmayer who said Pitch it to Timmy O'Neill who is so solidly booked.... did you have the OMG at the base of the red wall. A vague memory being there with some other boaters who said above here the New Zealand guy went on up but no one else.
Not sure we met when I sat at your beer Table after you Neptune history.
Seems a few challenges in that canyon! I can dig up old notes, I did a few climbing trips during my five river guiding seasons, but no major red wall routes. Email is deuce4@bigwalls.net
Your articles are all super in-depth, and I'm not interested in every topic you write about, so I don't read every article.
BUT! When you do write on something I'm interested enough to read, I'm grateful that you delve so deeply into things. I'm definitely looking forward to when you get around to climbing history in the USA.
Hi John! thanks a lot for all that amazing work of research! i confess i wait for your emails with great expectative. so thank you! - from catalonia, spain. g
Thanks! I am missing info from Spain, I know a bit about the more modern walls there, but do not know much about the history before 1940. Can you tell me more? Please email deuce4@bigwalls.net if you have any leads!
Dear John, first of all thank you for the most fascinating and detailed research on climbing equipment in context with the time and regional climbing cultures. It is really outstanding. I still have not had the time to read all of your articles, but they will be a relevant source for my own involvement with the history of climbing equipment. It is your research into Konrad Kain that brought me to sending you this feed back. I am British but have been living in Vienna, Austria for most of my life. I have climbed a lot on the Rax where Kain was born and put up the renown „Wiener Neustädter“ climb. This was until 1918 the hardest route in the area and graded 3-4 UIAA grading. So called because of the plan of the government of the town „Wiener Neustadt“ to introduce a qualifying certificate for climbers! (Rax is in the County of Wiener Neustadt). I never did the climb - too chossy. I am a climber, a now retired industrial designer, having also been involved tinkering, designing and inventing climbing gear. If you are interested I would like to send you more detailed information. Please contact me skone@vienna.at
Also check out: www.no-to-po.com/glory days/skone stones /salewa super magic
Cheers James Skone
Great info, thanks! This is my current footnotes I wrote about Rax in my current draft of Trains and Kain, part 2, let me know if I can add any details:
Footnote: Regarding the fifteen routes on the Rax at the time, information on the old routes is patchy (current guide here) but Kain writes about a few: the Katzenkopf, Akademik, Quartette, and the Karl Berger route. Routes can be as long as 800m in this Northern Limestone Alp range. Karl Berger had first ascended some of the hardest technical rock climbing spires in the Tyrol and Dolomites; he is most famous as one of the first ascensionists of the technical rock climbing breakthrough Campanile Basso in 1899. In the appendix, there is a postcard of Karl Berger on a steep rock climb possibly in the Rax Alps. Berger, like the great climber Hans Dülfer, was killed in WWI.
A boom in guideless climbing was also happening in the Viennese Alps, prompted by the Naturfreunde (Nature Friends) movement, an environmental organisation started in 1895 in Vienna, with thousands of members, who sought to share their love of mountain recreation and to provide rescue services. Kain writes of his friend and Naturfreunde member Franz Hahn, who fell and died on a climb in the Rax: “Only those, who like poor Hahn, buried today, laying out his own hard-earned kreuzers for nature, and finding his joy in the mountains; only those can be called nature friends” (Kain was very cognizant of social/wealth divides). From 1890, the Gebirgsfreund, (Mountain Friend) was a monthly from the Austrian Mountain Club based in Vienna with Mizzi Langer advertisements and Gustav Jahn illustrations; in its first issue, the editorial encourages alpine excursion in more distant ranges like the Ennsthal high mountains (~150km east of Vienna), which were “touristically” connected to Vienna via the “pleasure train of the Austrian State”.
A quick sketchy reply. Thanx for your interest. Karl Berger came from Innsbruck. No evidence of his climbing on Rax!? The piton „revolution“ came from Munich. There was the famous discussion between the „Munich School“ (Hans Dülfer and his more freely used pitons, mainly in the Wilde Kaiser) and the Vienna School (strongly associated with Paul Preuss) refusing the use of pitons (at least for a long period of time). The main big wall playground of the Viennese climbers was the Gesäuse and the Dachstein. Mountains that could be reached by train end of the 19th century. The „training areas“ were Rax and possibly from the climbing standard, Peilstein, which could be reached by a long walk from Vienna. (usually at night). The great names who did most of their short - very free - climbs on Peilstein where - amongst others - Fritz Kasparek (Eiger) and Walter Philipp (Philipp-Flamm Civetta). In the early 1970s, about the time of the „red dot“ revolution in Frankenjura through Kurt Albert, where old pitons where changed through bolts, my companions and I decided to climb „clean“ not to replace the old pegs on Peilstein. That lasted for a few years then the bolt lobby became too powerful.
Just checked the „Touristenzeitung“ article. Hardly anything about Kain! Just a few mentions. Just double checked the info in article and old guide book. Kain was in fact „only" the first ascender of a very hard variation of the Wr. Neustädter climb. Sorry about the mistake. I don’t know if it is really interesting for you to translate the whole article. Definitely too much for me. Also my english is not really up to standards. The guy who is really into alpine climbing history would be Nico Mailänder. (in Germany). I would translate part of the article, if you could tell me what is your main interest. It should be then edited by you, if possible. Would gladly give you further info about the Vienna climbing specially between the wars. (political situation). cheers!
I also love the rabbit holes. Wherever your brain goes always seems to be interesting to me. Occasionally you refer to some historical event that you assume is already known, yet I don’t know it. In editing process for book production, I am happy to read manuscript carefully to catch these gaps. Also, the more photos the better. Please print them large! Being able to zoom to see detail has been invaluable, but of course printing doesn’t give that ability.
Thanks Amy! Yes, would love to hear more gaps, as I do try to make sure I explain basic concepts as much as possible. Maybe just a quick reply email to the posts with a couple questions would be ideal! (I often edit quite a bit after I post these, as I consider them all works in progress and readers often provide further juicy details).
Your research articles always seem to explain the angles that are never explained and always assumed. Good on you for going the extra mile!
thanks! I have my family reading it too, so always like to check if it makes any sense to a non-climber (hopefully some!).
Digressions, the weeds, rabbit holes all good. Thank you.
there goes my week! Thanks!
I have found some things more interesting than others - the inter-war years in the Dolomites & Wilder Kaiser, previously unheralded women’s ascents - but that reflects areas I know a little or an interest in the wrinkles of history. All sorts of little oddities … do you know anything about Anderl Heckmair’s service on the Eastern Front in WW2? (I don’t.) I’m less interested in the mechanics of progression, save in so far as they reflect the spirit of the times … but given your chosen title for this series I can’t complain. & to echo others - what you’re putting together goes far beyond a blog & definitely deserves to find its way into the “old media”. I’ll buy a copy.
thanks Damien, appreciate the feedback. I do not know about Heckmair's service, is it not in this book?: https://www.amazon.com.au/Anderl-Heckmair-My-Life/dp/1898573557
Didn’t even know about the book - my ignorance! Many thanks for the information!
It’s all good to me! Have had alotta time to read with this covid crap. Hope you all are doing well and keep up the good work🤙
thanks blue blocker! No more supertopo to waste our days anymore, sad.
Your research goes deep and wide and feeds my sense of wonder. Thanks so much for bringing all this to life with such considered detail and imagery.
I’m interested in historical and cultural context intersecting with climbing and topography. At the moment, I’m particularly keen on the Karakoram.
It’s fun to see where your curiosity takes you, rabbit holes and all.
And yep — I Love reading about women. And the maps — Delicious!
Thanks Casey! Some of the old papers on the Karakoram are interesting like these: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Mr.+Conway%27s+Karakoram+Expedition&btnG=
Like everywhere, everything gets renamed. The local names much more interesting once you find out origins and delve into more rabbit holes. Cheers from Tassie.
Love the details, John. In many fields, such nuances and specifics are where the substance is found. Keep up the great work. Also, I second Katie Ives's comment. Your work on women climbers has been phenomenal!
Thanks, Eric! Right now trying to track down any info a “Miss Benedict”. Info below, sent to other researchers.
I am doing some research on early climbing tools and techniques, and was wondering if you have ever come across a woman climber with a last name of Benedikt, who might have lived in Altaussee in Austria. She was also a painter, perhaps.
Notes from Conrad Kain writings:
1905 Kain meets Miss B in Altaussee--solos a new route on Trisselwand and promises to return to climb a line Miss B. has picked out.
1906 early season climbs in the Rax, his home area, with Miss B.
1907, big climbing trip with Miss B and other in Ennstal Alps (Dachstein, Planspitze)
In letters, October, 1907, mentions climbs with the sisters Benedikt in the Dachsteingegebirge. They climbed among others the Petern route on the Planspitze, a long steep rock climb.
In 1908 Kain and Miss B did a new route on the Trisselwand. This route was not reported in the journals, as far as I can tell (but maybe local news from Vienna), but it predates some other routes up the wall that became very famous. The local "guides were aware of the Lady's project, they came to me and said we were both fools; it was impossible to surmount such a rock wall." By this time there was a well known route, considered the first ascent, in 1905 by Reinl. Kain mentions no one could believe they had done the new route, and that a reporter was arriving to talk to Miss B.
It sounds like yet another case of a long forgotten route, but might have actually been a pretty big deal at the time. Tomasson's ascent on Marmolata would have been widely known at the time, and this coincides at a time when these big unclimbed faces of the Northern Limestone Alps were really being looked at.
Just wondering if anything is known of this early climber.
(Kain only writes partners by initials, but I think “Miss B” is Miss Benedict, whom he mentions in another source—no info on first name).
Wishing more books like this in English: Jeanne Immink - Die Frau, die in die Wolken stieg: Das ungewöhnliche Leben einer grossen Bergsteigerin https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/3702230750/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Wow, John! Your knowledge here so far is the equivalent of climbing 5.14c, I would say, while my information is on the level of 5.3 or so. But I'll gladly scout for you, as to potential sources. For example, my Bavarian climbing friend Klaus may not himself be a helpful source but may know someone who could be. Let's continue by email!
The detail and historic photos are the gold. Larger higher resolution images the better.
I try to make high quality scans, and I think Substack does keep them, but you might need to click on the image to see the high rez version. Thanks!
I love all your research, particularly the stories about lesser-known women climbers. I hope all this goes into a book or some other permanent form so future researchers can access it--Katie.
Really appreciate, Katie. I will definitely try to put all into a single PDF with Abobe Indesign at some point. Will also try to convert to pages at Bigwalls.net, so searchable with google too.
Rabbit holes are good. I do want to hear about chamois in the Alps.
Rabbit holes coming up! Cheers and thanks!